Ben Kelleher is an ocean swimmer, Chief Risk Officer, Dad, and ANZ NZ's next Chief Executive.
A few kilometres off Auckland's Takapuna beach, Ben Kelleher and a friend find themselves in exactly the place ocean swimmers are told to avoid.
"A workup is a ‘boil-up’ of small fish. But the reason they are worked up is because below them are bigger fish – and you can imagine below those bigger fish there are much bigger fish, i.e. sharks," he says.
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Kelleher and his friend are both wearing heart rate monitors.
"You could see the heart rate spike because we had to swim at like 200 kilometres an hour. We almost ran across the water to get away."
The irony is he never particularly wanted to be in the deep ocean in the first place.
"I started ocean swimming when I had an achilles injury, and I couldn't run. I thought you know what, I'll give swimming a go."
There was one problem.
"I was a child growing up watching Jaws, Jaws 1 and Jaws 2 movies. They terrified me."
So he pushed a little further each time. First a buoy 100 metres offshore. Then further. Then further again
"At the start I couldn't even swim 100 metres out to a buoy. Now we'll go out 5 or 10 kilometres and not even think about it."
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His wife Rebecca watched the progression from the shore.
"It's fair to say Ben is through and through very driven and very competitive," she says.
For Kelleher, persistence is the lesson.
"Sometimes the biggest development areas are the areas that you feel uncomfortable with because they are development areas, right? You're not good at it yet."
It is a theme that resurfaces frequently. The willingness to sit in discomfort, not quitting when things get hard, and the belief that progress often starts where confidence ends.
Kelleher has spent almost 15 years at ANZ NZ, joining during one of the bank's biggest periods of change - the week ANZ and National Bank merged systems together.
Before becoming Chief Risk Officer, he had nearly five years as Managing Director, Personal Banking, as well as leading the Private Bank and Strategy teams.
He succeeds Antonia Watson, who leaves after seven years as Chief Executive.
"What excites me about being CEO is the opportunity to help our customers thrive and make a difference to the lives of New Zealanders. If we do that well, we’ll grow as a bank and a business.
“Building on what Antonia has done, my job, along with all of us together, is to take it forward."
Asked how he plans to handle the pressure: "I've learnt from one of the best."
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Long before banking and ocean swims, another experience shaped him.
Kelleher was just a teenager when his father died.
"I grew up really quickly. I had to learn to contribute more to the family. I was working before school and after school just to help pay for things."
There was no financial safety net.
"It actually taught me a lot of things about finances. We didn't have life insurance or anything like that."
With a mortgage and bills to pay, he says the strong family bond is what held them together.
"We had a really close family, and that taught me a life lesson. If you work hard, and you look after each other, you can get through adversity.
"I recognised the importance of good financial advice which frankly my parents didn't have at the time."
It also gave him a clear sense of why banking matters.
He talks about helping people start businesses, buy homes, save for retirement and build resilience.
A key part of his approach is ambition for ANZ NZ and for New Zealand.
"As CEO of our biggest bank, for me that means making sure our scale is matched by appetite.
"How do we create amazing propositions for customers that separate us out from the rest? How do we make sure that when exporters are taking their goods to the market, we're beside them? How do we help families into homes? How do we help people save for their retirement?
"I think we need to lift our ambition to go out and attack and win. We'll have to play defence every now and again, but it is equally important we know how to get on the front foot.”
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As conversation turns back to ocean swimming, Kelleher says: "What feels similar about the CEO role is that I don't do it by myself. I always have people around me, always have a team.
"We go out together and we face adversity together, which I love.
"The thing with ocean swimming is you always know where you're swimming to. As a team, you're aiming for that point and swimming together."
He says the same is true for business. Not an individual pursuit but a collective one. A group heading towards the same point on the horizon.
Underpinning it all is a belief he has carried since he was young.
"One of my mantras throughout my whole life has been I might not be the smartest, I might not be the fittest, the fastest, but I don't give up."
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At home, he's Harry and Charlotte's dad. Rebecca says ocean swimming has become part of family life.
"We all love the beach and so it's kind of a family activity."
The demands of a CEO will inevitably change things.
"With this big job that's about to start, finding a new rhythm as a family will be probably a challenge but something that we are really supportive of," Rebecca says.
Family remains the anchor point for Kelleher.
He says: "You'll see me work really hard at work, but you'll see me spending a lot of time outside of work as well. Spending time with my family and making sure they are thriving."
Kelleher is clear about what he's chasing, and his ambition stretches beyond the bank.
"I think we're hopefully heading for a period of time where the country can be more ambitious and have a period of growth.
"I'm super excited about it, it's an amazing role and I'm very humbled to have it. We've got a fantastic team; this is the best bank in the country.